and I delve into the conflict, focussing on the underlying morality of advocating for Palestinian statehood, examining how the right to self-determination trades off against individual liberty and welfare of future generations
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Great podcast. When you guys dug into the issue with Palestinian people voting for non-Western ideals, it reminded me of the Shadi Hamid's book "the Problem of Democracy", which was basically a book that said "If you have democracy in the middle east, then people will vote for Islamism, and Westerners have to be ok with "bad/non-western" outcomes".
Secondly, this topic is complicated in terms of finding solutions. Israeli support for a Palestinian state faded after the Second Intifada and Hamas's electoral victory in the mid 2000s. Even with reforms removing Hamas/PIJ or reforming Fatah by removing Abbas, Israelis fear another Hamas-like outcome in Palestinian elections due to concerns about Iranian influence and Israeli's counterattack on October 7th.
I guess If we imagine if Biden wins again he had the power to put pressure for a 2 state solution (or else Israel faces diplomatic isolation) then I guess the "Palestinian state" would be barely a state at this point. Whoever the Palestinian leader would AT BEST accept a state that is:
1. A Palestinian state getting 61% West Bank, Gaza and some land swaps in return for Israeli settlements
2. a fund for Palestinian people who can't return
3. no checkpoints (maybe)
4. no militarized state
5. international control of Temple Mount/Haram Al-Sharif
6, capital probably would be in Ramallah instead of East Jerusalem unless they can eek out some land there.
7. Also, Israel would be monitoring the Jordan Valley.
If Trump wins, then at best Palestine could get what's in this deal:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_peace_plan#:~:text=if%20re%2Delected.-,Key%20concepts%20and%20final%20status%20issues,both%20parties%20to%20the%20conflict.
Obviously Israel can just ignore presidents and go for annexation, but I am sure Israel doesn't want to be isolated.
Good discussion! And good points about how Palestinians have usually seemed to protest Israeli occupation with violence. Against such a militarily stronger foe, this seems like it would almost always worsen their position rather than improve it. (Unless you believe that your violence will eventually get supernatural support.) The Palestinian position would probably be much different if they had leaders with the insight of Gandhi or Mandela.